Voices Unveiled: Two Choices

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to voices Unveiled, a podcast where we explore the stories of internationally educated newcomers here in Minnesota. I'm your host, Halima Hamud. [00:00:33] Speaker B: As immigrants and refugees were resourceful enough to make so much with so little imagine, how much can we make? How much can we produce? How far can we get if you give us the same opportunities that you give to other people? [00:00:51] Speaker A: Today we have the privilege of hearing the story of Patricia Aguilar, an economic development professional. [00:01:05] Speaker B: My name is Patricia Aguilar. I'm a venezuelan immigrant in the US. I've been living here for five years now. I work as economic empowerment director in a nonprofit organization located in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. I'm a mom, a wife, an active member of the community. I'm a proud Latina who loves to connect with the community and get that sense of belonging which is so complex for immigrants sometimes to rebuild those connections and feel that you're still rooted to your community, your culture, your history. So since I moved here, I've been trying to be involved on many activities, not just with the latino community, but also I feel that coming here give me the opportunity to learn from over cultures, over backgrounds, over people, and realize that we're not the only ones who face challenges. We're in this together on different ways, different levels, but always as far as a whole. And I am grateful for being here. [00:02:14] Speaker C: I really like what you talked about about belonging, and I resonate with that. Can you talk more about ways that you feel belonging in different ways? I'm sure that there are different facets or different levels that you feel belonging in your identity, your experiences, but maybe you can explain more. [00:02:36] Speaker B: First, when I came here, I didn't speak English, so I felt disconnected from everything. It was the first time in my adult life that I was jobless. It was the first time in my adult life that I couldn't sustain myself because I didn't have a job, I didn't have any friends, any means to rebuild my life here. I came as asylum seeker, and it was starting from scratch. So the first thing that I did to connect with someone, it was volunteer work. It helped me to understand that I wasn't alone. I wasn't the only immigrant, female, adult, mom, wife facing those same challenges. So start connecting with communities first, the ones that speak my language, but not necessarily from my same home country. So I start to learn from the ecuadorian experience, the mexican experience, the Salvatore experience. And for me, it was finding those commonalities. Those points were like, oh, my story looks like yours. We may speak the same language, but we come from different backgrounds, we have different cultures and certain things. So finding those people that spoke my same language and trying to find those commonalities with them, that was my starting point. But then I wanted to open my mind to, okay, who am I beyond my race, my skin color, my gender? How can I, as human being, connect with over human beings, beyond all those identities that in some way make us apart? So I started connecting more with other communities, learning from them. And then I start feeling that I wasn't alone. And I started feeling that I feed, and I started feeling that my story was worth it to be told. [00:04:46] Speaker C: Yes, that is 100% true. And I love the way that you said that you connect with those that speak the same language as you come from the same country. But I know that it takes a reflection and sense of self awareness to go then beyond that, to say, I know my community now. I have made connection with them now I want to look beyond that and connect with other communities. And I hope that that's something that everybody can act on or do, because it does take a lot of self awareness, but also wanting to engage with others and wanting to learn from others. So I'm going to go back now. You're from Venezuela, but where is your home more specifically? [00:05:28] Speaker B: Well, I was born in Puerto La Cruz. That's a beautiful city just in front of the beach, middle of the caribbean sea. But then I live in different states of Venezuela. Until I moved here, growing up, I used to think that home was a know, a house, an apartment, a building, and my perspective of what a home means and what even family means. It change a lot when I move here because I have to leave my beautiful house that I decorated and designed to my specific taste and thinking on my son and my husband, and then coming here and living with family members that welcomed us in a two bedroom apartment, one bathroom, seven people for six months. And it could sound crazy for some people, but it feel like home either way, because we were in a safe place. We were surrounded by people that were able to open their arms, their homes, their food for us. So it felt like home. And then moving forward, we live on a basement, we were able to rent a basement, and it felt like a huge success at that time. And we'll stay there for a year. And then we were able to rent an apartment and all those places. Even though the structure, like the house itself, it wasn't what we would envision for our lives, it still feel like home. So I will say that today, for me, home is a place where I can be with my son and my husband. That is safe. [00:07:26] Speaker C: It's so interesting, so nice to see people's definition of home. So nice to hear your definition and what it looks like. And then how did you start your education journey? Where did you start? [00:07:39] Speaker B: Well, I'm a daughter to a single mom. My mom couldn't go to college because she had me and then she had to work. So growing up, getting college education was a huge deal for my family. That narrative that you have to go to college, you have to go to college, you have to go to college. That's the only way that you'll be someone when you grow up. That's the only way that you will get a good job when you grow up. And I think that was very embedded into me. I'm like, yeah, okay, I'll do it. So I graduated from high school back in Venezuela. I was 16, then I went right away to college. I got my bachelor in economics. Back there is called economic science. How was that? It's five years. Instead of here is four, back there is five. The last year, you do a nine months internship and you have to present a thesis. You choose a topic that you learn on your career, and then you will do a final thesis. You have to present that with a jury of four experts on the topic. It's a huge event, and it's like coming to full circle. All the things that you learned during those five years, you will present on. [00:09:05] Speaker C: That final project very much. Sounds like a master's degree compared to a bachelor's. [00:09:11] Speaker B: Well, as soon as I finished my bachelor, I got a job. I started on a. It's called the new talent development. Back at the time, Venezuela was still very growing country, and there was a lot of foreign industries making a living there. So I got this job in a spanish bank. Very important, one of the top three in Spain and in Venezuela. And I got into this program and then they encouraged me to continue pursuing higher education. So I went, took my master in finances back there. The master is two years. It also requires you to go to a six month internship, and you also have to present a thesis when you end. So it was a great experience. So at the time I turned 25, I already had my full college education. [00:10:10] Speaker C: Wow. What did you do your thesis on? [00:10:12] Speaker B: My first one on the bachelor, that was. I did my internship in a bank, not the same spanish one, and didn't get in a formal job was a different one, a little bit smaller. So my project, that was the impact of administrative cost on the vanguard structure. So in the way that banks work, they get income when you owe them money, and when you put your money with them, that's their expenses, because they have to pay you an interest rate to save your money. They collect and redistribute money. They are like intermediary, and that's the core of the business. But then there is the other side of the business. The buildings, the electricity, the running water, the Internet access, the equipments, all those how, all those things that are needed to keep the business running. Impact on the interest rates that they were charging to clients. [00:11:16] Speaker C: Clients. Wow. [00:11:18] Speaker B: And then with the master, it has to be something bigger, it has to be something on the macroeconomical level. And then for that one, my country was. The economic crisis was already getting deeper. So my project was based on the impact of the banking industry on the economy, and how the banking industry helped for many, many years to keep economy on a bubble, that everything was working still, but it wasn't. So how the banking industry was key for the economic bubble to not implode earlier. Both were beautiful projects. It took a lot of work, a lot of research, but I'm proud that I was able to complete both. And yeah, I feel that that was a beautiful time in my life. I learned a lot. I stayed with that bank for almost twelve years. I work until a Thursday at 04:30 p.m. And then I travel to the US next Friday in the morning. So I work with them until my very last day. I have beautiful memories of my time there. I still now have a lot of basic knowledge that I learned from them. That ethical work, that efficiency, that teamwork, in that sense of we can do better, we can do more, we can be more strategic and work for the common good, even though that was a for profit. And yes, the business was making money, but they have a human centered design where the client is the first, the client is the most important. And not everything in the business was just the money. It was what is behind all that, how we make that happen. [00:13:25] Speaker C: When did coming to the US come to mind? What happened to prompt you to come here? [00:13:31] Speaker B: Well, the overall situation in my country was getting worse and worse and worse. [00:13:44] Speaker A: Patricia explains that it all started 1998, when the military officer Hugo Chavez won the venezuelan election by 56%. Noticeable troubles from the Chavez government begins to occur around 2010, including changes like altering the national anthem and flag and renaming the country to Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. However, the situation took a drastic turn in 2014 when the global oil price collapsed, triggering an economic downturn in Venezuela as the country's infrastructure began to crumble. Patricia and her family felt the pressure that over time became unbearable, leading to their decision to pack their lives in a suitcase and move to the US. [00:14:44] Speaker B: We came first to Florida. We stayed in Florida for 30 days. We didn't knew anything about the asylum process, and we wanted to meet with a lawyer, and we wanted to make things right. And then during that process, my husband find that he had a half sister on his dad's side living in Minnesota. [00:15:06] Speaker C: What a surprise. [00:15:07] Speaker B: And she was like, yeah, I've been here for two years now. You can stay with us. You can come. That's how we ended in Minnesota. [00:15:17] Speaker C: After 30 days. [00:15:19] Speaker B: After 30 days in Florida, tried to figure out a lawyer, how this work, what can we do? And it's been five years since then. [00:15:27] Speaker C: Since that time, yeah. I will ask you about the first time, first day you came to Florida. Using the five senses, describe your first day in the US. Your five sense being, your vision, your hearing, your touch, your smell. [00:15:44] Speaker B: It was overwhelming in many, many ways. During the trip, the time where we're on the plane, I was praying the whole time. I feel that I was able to breathe after we pass immigration. And it was crazy that the agent didn't ask us anything. Usually they ask you a lot of questions. And at the time that we came, there was a lot of Venezuelan coming to, trying to seek asylum. And there was a lot of them getting deported right away in the airport. So I was really scared, I was shaking, but I feel like, I don't know, God, he, she, they, I don't know. However you guys perceive God, I feel like God had a reason for us to be here. The guy just saw us talk the passports, and he said, welcome to the US, and put the stamp. And at that moment, I breathed. I was like, okay, we're here. My son was happy and excited because he was just four years old, so he didn't fully understand. And for him was like, oh, we're going vacations and a lot of Mickey signs, and, oh, maybe we're going to Disney and innocent kid. But for me and my husband, it was like, okay, we finally feel safe. And that's the first feeling. And then you start to realizing, okay, we're here. What now? What comes next? And that's a whole different story. That's a whole new feelings. We got pickup at the airport for family members. At this point, a lot of Venezuelans were here already. We had, like, half of our family living in Florida. So I remember that we went to eat, and my son wanted to eat McDonald's. So. Okay, let's go. And, yeah, everything tastes different. It was like that relief, that sense of relief. And, yeah, with the past of the days, then it was like, okay, we have to move on. We have to find a lawyer. We have to start doing things. I feel like we did not allow ourselves to calm down. I feel like we're scared. [00:18:17] Speaker C: Survival instinct. [00:18:18] Speaker B: Yes. We want to do everything right away. And then we came with savings, so we have to be very wise of how we spend every dollar. And after a couple of days is when you start to lower down and start thinking on the things that you left behind. I remember that for me, on the first six months here, each time that I wake up, I was like, where am I? What's this place? And my brain wasn't recognizing. I mean, it was confusing where I was. I was in Venezuela. I was here, where was. And I remember having dreams of me going to my work, going to the building in the bank and trying to use my badge to get in and not being able to get in. And someone, no, you don't work here anymore. What are you doing here? You left. You're not supposed to be here. And I have that dream. I have that same dream for six months. [00:19:28] Speaker C: The trauma and the eruptness and the fast and the urgency of everything from living in a decent life, living in a beautiful, safe environment, being happy, your career. And then all of a sudden, everything changes. So sudden that your brain doesn't have time to really understand, hey, this is happening to me now. So now it's trying to continue with the old life. And you're like, no, we're here. This is completely different. This is different location, different place, different people, different situation. [00:20:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And you do not continue your old life. You are starting a new life. And yes, you have with you your knowledge, but you also have with you your traumas, your emotional wounds, your concerns, your fears. You bring all that baggage with you. And you have two choices in my perspective, you have two choices. You can get stuck on the victim side of the situation, why this happened to me, or which is the harder one? You can start thinking, okay, what I'm going to do with this, that happened to me. How can I navigate? I wouldn't say overcome. Navigate, at least before starting thinking on overcoming the challenge, what was your choice? I decided that I had to learn how to navigate this if I wanted to give my kid an opportunity. But also I decided that I was worthy to give myself the opportunity, too. That was. I was so stubborn to learn English as soon as I could, and it took me time. It took me 18 months to feel confident speaking. And sometimes I still have that in the back of my hand. Like, I should have said this, or I could say that, or I should said in not on, or I should have said at not in, for example, or sometimes with a pronouns. But then I was like, you should be proud that you can communicate with other people, that you speak two languages. Just embrace it. You're going to make mistakes, and that's fine. Keep learning. But it took me time, and it took me a lot of sole determination to silence the voices around of other people that came before me that had different stories and tried to make my story look the same as them. And I was like, okay, that's your story. That's your baggage. I respect it, I acknowledge it, but I'm going to try. If it doesn't work, if years happen and I haven't learned, I'll still have the satisfaction that I tried. [00:22:42] Speaker C: What did you want to do differently compared to those stories? [00:22:46] Speaker B: For example, there is a lot of stereotypes on the latino immigrants and many of us in general, we just start working right away in whatever we find available without sometimes allowing ourselves the opportunity to go and learn the language. I feel that the language is the first door that you have to open. It takes a lot of work to open that door. Commitment, discipline, practice. But once you open that door, that one is going to open thousands of doors for you. So that's something that I always share with my community. Like, guys, we have to navigate the language. We have to be able to communicate. In the hispanic community, a lot of people, maybe they didn't went to college, but they have vocational training. They are plumbers, they are carpenters. They have huge knowledge on construction. If they master the language, they could be way better. You will always have an accent and, yeah, I do. And it's fine. I still can communicate. And that's more than enough people that said, no, you will never be able to get a job in your career. It will take time. Yes, you'll have to build your network. Yes, you probably will have to do volunteer work free first. [00:24:21] Speaker C: Yeah, let's talk about that. You're in Minnesota now. You learned the language. Took you six months. Six months, right. [00:24:28] Speaker B: To learn. No, 1818 months. [00:24:31] Speaker C: To learn the language, to have some confidence in it. Now, when did you realize that it might be hard for you to go back into your banking career? [00:24:41] Speaker B: When I went to twelve job interviews and didn't get a job, I got a job on the interview number 13. [00:24:51] Speaker C: What roles were they were those the ones that you were applying for. What roles were they? [00:24:55] Speaker B: Mostly in banking. [00:24:56] Speaker C: Was it very high up? No, middle. [00:25:00] Speaker B: I try a little bit of everything. I try entry level, right? And then I try middle management. Those were the ones that I tried in banking. I tried two in nonprofit. I got calls from everyone that I applied. [00:25:20] Speaker A: Patricia applied for a total of 13 jobs and secured a job offer on her 13th interview. Throughout her job search, she faced various reasons for a rejection, including concerns about her english proficiency being deemed overqualified for some positions and lacking sufficient us work experience. In the meantime, she found volunteering opportunities to practice her English, expose herself to different work settings, and familiarized herself with various accents. These experience not only helped her enhance her language skills, but allowed her to build a network and engage with the community. Network is the word I'm hearing from both interview participants and advocates that are helping create pathways. Building the right network makes a huge difference in terms of finding a job, finding resources to get more training, and more. Many newcomers have a hard time navigating this sense of community. Having a strong network sets them up for success, but unfortunately for many, that is not accessible. I learned a few lessons from Patricia's journey in navigating these job searches. One is that employers should recognize the value of diverse skills and experiences that immigrants bring to the table. Patricia faced rejections based on her perception of her english proficiency. It's important for employers to assess their language skills accurately and consider the potential for improvement, especially if the candidate is actively working on language development. Perhaps employers can adopt a mindset of our workplace can be a place for you to develop these skills, rather than seeing this as lacking or weakness. [00:27:17] Speaker C: Tell me about when you heard that cappy accepted you as an employee. Or like that acceptance meeting when they tell you we would love to hire you. [00:27:27] Speaker B: I couldn't believe it. I was like, are you sure? I couldn't believe it. And then the impostor syndrome kick in. I was like, why? If I don't do it well enough, why, if my English is not good enough, why if I make a mistake? And then I went back to, well, you have two choices. You can call them back and say that you don't feel capable to go forward, or you can do your best and see what happens. And I did my best. I learned as much as I could. So in the first year, I got myself certified as hot housing counselor. Hot is the housing and urban development department of the US. So I got that federal credential. [00:28:21] Speaker C: Wow. [00:28:22] Speaker B: I got certified as homebuyer education. Homebuyer counselor, financial advisor. [00:28:29] Speaker C: What position did you do at Kathy? [00:28:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I was financial coach. [00:28:33] Speaker C: Okay. [00:28:34] Speaker B: So at that time, I worked directly with participants to help them to learn financial american system and be ready to become homeowners. So it was the other side of what I did back in Venezuela, because I was the bank back there, I could decided if we approve or deny the loans. Now I was helping people to be ready to go to the bank and. [00:29:00] Speaker C: Get acceptance from the bank. [00:29:02] Speaker B: So it was like coming to a full circle in a very unexpected way. But I get to use all that knowledge of how the bank thinks, what they value, how they measure credit, how they calculate things, to decide if you are credit worthy or no. So that helped me a lot, and I did a great job as coach. Then the opportunity present and the manager position opened and I applied for it. I ended up getting that position after a year being coach, and then after a year and a half being manager, I was promoted to director. A lot of people first were like, well, but she's the new one. But she's been here only two years, or white hair. And then I was like, well, yeah, that's like a nice brew. You only see the external piece. My two, almost three years at Cappy. But you don't see the twelve years of work experience that I bring. You don't see my two years of my master. You don't see my five years of my bachelor. You don't see all the continued education hours that I got during those twelve years of work experience. So it's not just what you see for this short time, it's all what I bring. [00:30:29] Speaker C: That is a very common theme that people, whether they are employers, the hiring managers, the policymakers, the advocates that are new to the field, they don't do a lot of that asking or investigating to know who this person is beyond then what they might be presenting to you beyond what they're currently doing. Right, because we just see a janitor, but we don't see their experiences back home. We don't see their degrees back home. We just see you, Patricia, who only done two years at CaPi, but we don't see your master's degree, like you said, and we don't see your years of banking experience. And that's very unfair. So I wonder, in your position from coach to now, as a director, what do you do to help yourself and help your employee, your employees, the people that you work with, see people for more than they are or more than they're presenting themselves. [00:31:30] Speaker B: First thing is we can't see people as a number. We can't see people as a box to check as an outcome. To be in compliance with the founders, we have to acknowledge that each number that we see on those outcomes, that's a family, that's someone's mom, that's someone's dad, that's someone's daughter who's trying to do better, who's trying to overcome every single challenge. They're trying to overcome a system that is designed to not let them thrive, because let's be clear, this system wasn't created for us, immigrants and refugees. It was not. And the first step to change that is acknowledge being aware. Okay. The system wasn't created for us. Okay, fine. What's next? Do we understand the system enough so that we can navigate it? I feel like each human being, every single one, no matter their background, no matter their race, their age, their socioeconomic status, they have something to give. Everyone has a purpose. Maybe they don't know what's their purpose now, but eventually they will figure out for me, it start with respect. Respect our differences, respect our commonalities. Understand that immigrants and refugees, people of color, were not less worthy than anyone else. We have different stories. Yeah, we have different backgrounds, yes, but that doesn't make us more or less. We just are. [00:33:34] Speaker C: I love that. And you can find the commonalities only when you start the conversation, only get to know each other. That's when you can see the commonalities and you realize, oh, yeah, this person is not so different from me. I think it's the most beautiful gift anyone can give you, or we can give each other, is the opportunity to be heard by one another and to give a sign that I accept what you're telling me. I accept your experience, or I hear you. So I love that. So the last question that I want to ask you is, what resources is missing? Right? Because you did so many interviews, you volunteered, you did many opportunities to get experiences so that you can practice for your job, the job that you're applying for. But there's many people that may not be successful, as you were. Right. Because either through the system of their licensing not being approved, like you said, they're being told that your English is not proficient or saying that you're overqualified. But there's a lot of reasons. And people, millions of people who are refugees and immigrants, end up not doing what they used to do back home at the level that they used to do back home. So often what happens is they do jobs that are low paid, low skill, doesn't match where they want to be doesn't match the skills that they have and their degrees. And that's very unfortunate and very unfair. And so what are the missing resources to help these individuals? And you think that were helpful to you? [00:35:20] Speaker B: One missing piece is awareness. On the employer side, a lot of employers think that only us education is valid, worth it, and. Right. And that's not true. Around the world, there is many countries with high education level. And I can tell you, if you put a US student of 8th grade and you put someone from the same grade level from any other country and you ask them the same questions, the results are going to be very similar. Many educational pieces are universal. Chemistry, geography, math, those are universal sciences, those are the same. Math equations are the same here in China, Venezuela, in Somalia, and everyone, every place, that's the same. Same with chemistry, that's the same. Physics, that's the same. So there is a need to change the narrative that only us education is good enough to seek for jobs. But also there is other missing things. The narrative that immigrants come here with low educational level, that we don't get high school diplomas, that we don't go to college. Well, let me tell you something. Many other countries have free college education. My country has free college education. I don't went to public college, but it's available. You graduate from college out of depth. So, yes, immigrants and refugees, we do seek post secondary education, we do go to college, we do have skills, but also I feel like there is something that they haven't seen. And if as immigrants and refugees were resourceful enough to make so much with so little, imagine how much can we make? How much can we produce? How far can we get? If you give us the same opportunities that you give to other people that was born here, that simple math. We, as immigrants and refugees, we have to develop skills to survive back home with very few opportunities. And we will still survive. And in some cases, we thrive. Imagine if here we're given the same opportunities without considering our accents, our skin color, where we born. Imagine how much growth we could provide to the economy and to every single industry in this country if they allowed us to use our talents and our knowledge. So I will say that this connection is education. [00:38:58] Speaker C: We need to educate awareness. Yeah. [00:39:00] Speaker B: And we need to increase awareness on employers, on industry partners. And they require one person to start the change. And that's going to go like a domino effect. It will move forward. And you can see that companies that have immigrant and refugee employees, not just to check the diversity equity inclusion box, but the ones that really use their immigrant and refugee staff talents and put them on a strategic positions. Those companies are more successful. Those companies have something unique because the immigrants and refugee people were grateful. We want to be worth it of the opportunity that we have. We want to do the best that we can with the resources that we have. So we're going to do our best. Once you let us in, we're going to do the best that we can. That's the top one employer that you can have because we have that sense of gratitude that you give me that opportunity. I'm going to do my best to give you what you need. [00:40:22] Speaker C: Thank you so much. I agree with that. We do make magic with a little bit that we have and that little bit we get. So thank you. [00:40:29] Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for having me. And thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my story. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Thank you for listening to voices unveiled. We invite you to actively participate in our mission to uplift these voices. Stay connected by subscribing to our circles of Excellence newsletter. You can also find all the source materials on this episode on our website. The link to the website is in the show notes. If you're an international trained refugee or an immigrant looking for skill building opportunities and resources, please visit our website. Special thanks to Julie Sansulo, our dedicated sound engineer and editor KfAI program director Miguel Bergas, who provided us with fantastic studio space and logistics assistance. Please subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and wherever you get your podcast. Voices unveiled is brought to you by KFAI Community Radio.